Pictured Ilene Chaiken in Chicago for a BETTY RULES! musical benefit for LCCP and EI (Photo by Mel Ferrand) and The first season cast.
The following interview will also air on Windy City Radio Sunday, June 13, 11-midnight, WCKG, 105.9 FM.
Whether it stands for lesbians or LA or love or luscious or lusty or lies—it's all about the L Word on Showtime. With production starting on Season 2 this summer, I had an opportunity to sit down and talk with Ilene Chaiken on her recent visit to Chicago.
When she came to her door, she surprised me. I think I expected an all-business tough kind of broad. Who else could helm this gargantuan and risky series? But then Ilene came to the door. Amazingly petite, pretty, fiercely smart, delicate and witty—she is an amalgamation of all the characters on the show she has created. And very open to talking about this journey she is on—the one about The L Word.
Amy Matheny: Ilene, were you nervous about how the show would be received?
Ilene Chaiken: Oh God yes!
AM: What were your biggest fears?
IC: My first fear was that nobody would come to see what we'd done. And after that, it is just the fear that you have when you put your work out in the world. You never know how it is going to be received. I felt like we had done something. We had a great time working on this show and while we were making it, we all felt like we were doing something really interesting. So I was kind of excited but it was still terrifying.
AM: Were there any stipulations you had from Showtime? The Queer As Folk (QAF) phenomenon kind of burned a trail for you.
IL: They blazed a path for us. They did. The only thing Showtime ever pushed me to do was to make the show better. They never said, 'you're going too far' or 'that's too outrageous. You're going to lose your audience.' They never said 'we want more sex' or 'we want it to be more outrageous.' They pushed me very hard just to make it good.
AM: You brought Rose (Troche), Guinevere Turner and others to help as creators to define this world and these characters. But when you were looking for actresses to be your core group of women that audiences had to latch onto and feel a connection to—not just the lesbian community, but all audiences—was that difficult? And did you have problems like QAF did, in that some actors turned it down and did not want to play gay?
IL: Our experience was very, very different. When Showtime ordered the show, the president of production at the time said, 'we are going to make this not casting contingent.' Some shows are 'If you can get so and so to act in it, we will make it.' He was very definitive about wanting to cast the best actors. He said to me 'you'll never get any stars for this. We've been through this with QAF and people are going to run from this. It's going to be hard. People are going to run from this kind of material.' And I knew instinctively that that wasn't going to be the case for us for two reasons—one, because QAF had already made it a little safer, but two, because women are different. It's not as scary for an actress, I think, to play a lesbian, as it is for an actor to play a gay man. And women are also hungrier for really good material because there are so few roles. But I think even more than that, women are bold. Women will take something on because it's challenging, and I just knew we would get great actors. Jennifer Beals was the first person we went to and when she said 'yes,' it absolutely set the tone.
AM: What was important to show about the women's community and/or the lesbian community?
IL: I didn't approach it in that way. I approached it from a point of view of telling stories. I envisioned a world, my world primarily is where it started, branching out beyond my world, which isn't narrow but certainly doesn't encompass everyone and everything. But I just started telling stories and as we peopled the universe of the show with characters, they become representative because we are all different and we touch so many different lives.
AM: Were there myths you wanted to debunk about lesbians like 'they wear heels' or 'they are raising children' for mainstream America?
IL: Again, I didn't set out to debunk anything but I knew that we would. I knew that by telling our stories and by representing our lives in all of our diversity that we would be shattering myths and stereotypes.
AM: There is racial diversity on the show. That is different and contrary to QAF which has been ridiculed for (their lack of racial diversity). Do you feel that there is a responsibility to represent an even broader scope of the lesbian community? Some feedback has said that the actress are 'Hollywoodized' or that there are less butch-type characters. What will we see in season two?
IL: You are going to see more, not because I feel a responsibility to represent but because I WANT to, because that's life, and as we get to keep telling these stories, we naturally will meet more people. I want the show to be diverse. I want to represent, not because of a political agenda but because it is good storytelling.
AM: The main characters … will all of them be back next year? And will there be others added to the group or to 2-3 episode character arcs?
IL: There will be a few new characters. There are two characters coming back for either a limited run or not coming back at all. But I am excited to be introducing some new characters. One of my ambitions is to make this show, as much as it is television and it IS a little bit prettier, more glamorous than our lives, real. I feel it is real. It represents a life that is familiar to me, and I want it to feel like life and for people to come and go as they do in life.
AM: You have had some amazing guest stars—Rosanna Arquette, Holland Taylor, Kelly Lynch, Ossie Davis, Snoop Dog—how does that happen?
IL: I can't say how. All I can say is we got soooo lucky.
AM: You are kind of like the Will & Grace of cable … with all of these guest stars of merit and name. It's a fun thing. And it shows a harmony with the gay community just in their mere presence.
IL: It is fun! All of the people who have come to work as actors and directors have been really thrilled to be doing it. They all seem to feel as though they are taking part in something. They liked the material. They really poured themselves into it.
AM: Is there a favorite? One that you felt worked really well and has to come back?
IL: There are some guest stars I want to bring back. I loved them all and I can't choose favorites. It's like choosing between your children. But there are some I am trying to bring back because the storylines warrant bringing them back.
AM: You've said you don't feel it is political, but do you think that The L Word is affecting change for lesbian cinema and lesbian characters on TV?
IL: I think telling our stories is a radical act. I do think the show is political. I don't approach it as political, but I do think that it is. And I think one of the most powerful things we can do is tell our stories. Our visibility is power.
AM: I have to go there. Let's talk about sex. Is there a code? And I don't mean one written on the wall but a code about filming sex scenes on the show? You had to talk about it! Many of these actresses had probably never done a sex scene with a woman. What was important? It needs to be sexy. That is what makes us lesbians—how we have sex and with whom.
IL: That IS what distinguishes us! It is really, really hard. It is the hardest thing in filmmaking because everybody has a different idea about what is sexy and what is erotic and you just have to strike exactly the right tone. Writing them, the rule for me is simply it has to have to be there. It's never gratuitous. It should always be organic to the storytelling. It has to progress the story. I think of sex scenes as stories unto themselves. Every act of sex tells a story. They tell really different stories—some sad, some joyful, some harsh—and then you just have to go at it instinctively. Everybody has a different cringe meter and I just try to work with filmmakers and actors to find the right path to go down so it is sexy when it wants to be sexy or melancholy when it needs to be.
AM: With lesbian films or films with lesbian characters, often it is so apparent that the two actresses are not comfortable even kissing one another. Many are respected actresses with a body of work. I don't get that from The L Word. It seems very real and natural. Was there a conversation about that with these actresses?
IL: When we were making the pilot, Rose Troche who was directing, got it in her head that she should do something to acquaint some of these actresses with the nuances of lesbian sex and we actually did have a kind of jam session and we called in a lesbian sexpert and we all sat around and wound up talking about sex. Basically, a love scene is a love scene. These people so fully embody their characters. They are all gifted actors and that thing happened that happens very rarely and that is, they are just a magical ensemble (that) know(s) what they are doing, why they are there, and are fully committed. There was never a moment when I was watching two women kissing and said, 'Oh god! I just don't believe it.' If I had, I would have stopped and had them do it again, or found another way to do the scene.
AM: Obviously, you are exploring gender and bisexuality. At the end of the season you introduced a character (played by Kelly Lynch) to Kit (Pam Grier) who is a drag king and (seemingly) transgender. Will these topics evolve?
IL: We will continue to explore them. One of the main themes of the show is sexuality. I love writing and telling stories about sexuality and will continue to explore nuances of gender, the fluidity of sexuality, gender identification, all of those things. Again, not as academic subject matter but because, that's life.
AM: So, next season starts filming this summer and (then) we have to wait until January 2005 for the new episodes to air. I'm going to give you a character and give me the word that comes into your head as to where that character has evolved. Every one started at one place and by the end of the season landed somewhere vastly different. They all seem to have had a grand journey.
IL: Does it really have to be one word? Cause I tend to be more verbose than that.
AM: No. I'm not going to be that tough on you. A thought. A phrase. Ok? Shane.
IL: Regrouping.
AM: Marina.
IL: Marina is not coming back. She had a rough time at the end of the season with Jenny and we are going to deal with where she went.
AM: Really?! OK, let's go to Jenny then.
IL: Further exploration. Jenny's second season is really going to be about coming out, understanding what her new life is about now.
AM: Coming out as a lesbian or a bisexual? She was (dating) a guy and a girl at the end of the season.
IL: For Jenny sexuality is pretty fluid but she is definitely going to be much more into the lesbian community.
AM: Let's get to Bette and Tina breaking lesbian couples' hearts everywhere.
IL: Oh God. Bette is going to have such a rough time. She's got a lot to recover from and a lot to answer to.
AM: And it doesn't seem done (her infidelity).
IL: It's not done. But I think Bette and Tina are really deeply in love with one another and I believe they belong together. But it is going to be hard for them to find a way back to one another.
AM: Once again, life. OK, Kit.
IL: Kit is empowerment.
AM: One word. Very good.
IL: I'm getting there.
AM: And the two that potentially could be making us smile next season, Dana and Alice.
IL: [long pause] Approach. Avoidance.
AM: The DVD is coming out in November for the holidays. As you work on the DVD, can you tell me some of the special features to entice us?
IL: There are going to be quite a few special features. The only one I can tell you about is the 13th episode, our girls went to prison. We shot a much pulpier version of it and that is going to be in the DVD collection. It's replete with all of the conventions of the genre, shower scenes, food fights …and so on, and we are going to include that.
AM: What a nice little epilogue for us!
